Posts by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

7

Scared Kids with cognitive dissonance

by Wakanda in

this is not about sexual child abuse, and i apologize if i put it under the wrong subject area.

stream of consciousness writing: .

i was just thinking about how before i became more of an uber dub in my teen years i was a very frightened child.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

It's okay to be vulnerable here, @Wakanda :). We hear you.

From what I gather, your silent compliance stemmed from necessity rather than choice. When you say there were "popularity contests" among your relatives, I can just imagine the pressure you must have felt to internalize all your struggles. After all, any sign of less-than-perfect conduct is a reflection on the whole family's "reputation" in the congregation and the extended relatives. I find familiarity with you there.

While this childhood oppression you underwent may have given your short-sighted parents a handle on any challenging behaviors and emotions you would have naturally felt rising within you, it only served to store up a huge amount of difficulty later on in life... because, well, here we are talking about the "love" your parents used as a currency on an anonymous forum decades later.

I'm so sorry that your real thoughts and feelings got buried back then. I can only wonder how many more of the present generation of JW youths are also becoming the keeper of too many secrets, and appalling communicators of the many unpopular, yet important things needing addressing.

Another significant issue with the perfect JW child is, they have no experience of people being able to tolerate their badness. They've missed out on a vital privilege of a healthy child - that of being able to display envious, greedy and maniacal sides that could yet be tolerated and loved nevertheless. Instead, they are forced into a version of reality where, unless they remain in order, they are otherwise unlovable. Given your own memories and recollections, we both know children aren't stupid - they can tell when things just don't seem quite "right" in their family ideals.

The sociological breakdown of adults in the religion suffering from ailments is a well-covered issue, but I do wonder now how many psychosomatic symptoms are actually being generated in the pre-teen strata since you've mentioned your own case. This may be an area worth us investigating.

6

How would you respond?

by enigma1863 in

someone who thinks i’m an elder:.

good afternoon brother.

i am _______ and i work as a regular pioneer.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

Good one.

My response may have been: "Cultivate your love for the spiritual heritage that has lead to the current ruling body. I know our library is quite sparse at the moment, but there are plenty of PDFs available of our earlier publications. Should we start with, say, the year 1968? I'll let you take it from there."

32

Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

by john.prestor in

i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@Vidiot: "Brother Grey will see you now."

29

Pioneers, Prayers and Pills

by Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho in

looking back on my two decades as a jehovah’s witness, i’ve come to realize how the constant theme of endurance is playing a detrimental role on the individual's psyche.. jehovah’s witnesses have become far too good at keeping going.

they’re experts at surrendering to the demands of the watchtower, living up to what’s expected of them, and getting on with the priorities that those in power have defined and imposed upon them.

they keep showing up, presenting themselves a dutiful pioneer or ministerial servant.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@LevelThePlayingField Special rates for Lower Midwest clients :).

@nmthinker: "I drank so much as a JW I think I was honestly trying to kill myself and disappear." Believe me - I think there are many "sober" alcoholics within the organization. And by that, I mean, people white-knuckling their way through each day, stubbornly refusing to deal with severe issues at hand and seeking escape in their next bottle of Watchtower-labeled brandy.

Remember this face of defeat from the Bunker videos?

Her potential crime? Entertaining "negative thoughts".

The end result of her boycotting what her mind was screaming at her to pay attention to is self-apparent in the picture above.

When difficult (or "negative") feelings do threaten to emerge, the loyal Witness typically takes fright and looks away. Rather than produce an honest account of feelings, they are coached to go numb (or as the video emphasized, "deaden ourselves"). The only other option is for them to self-deceive with a version of events that is more acceptable than true...

For example, "I'm feeling very stressed from work," instead of "I can't keep up with my theocratic obligations." Or, "I'm just depressed," rather than "I'm furious with the way the brothers handled that." Or, "this movie is completely unacceptable - turn it off!" instead of, "I really want to see what happens in the end."

The Witnesses' problems are compounded by the way that many powerful feelings (especially ones of upset, frustration and betrayal) are not just censored, but strictly warned against expressing to outsiders for fear of "causing divisions". There's just one radical issue with this: feelings that are ignored don't and can't go away. They fester and manifest their energy through an array of health issues, both psychological and physical. As @doubtful1799 put it, it "makes the heart sick." Is it any wonder why each congregation reflects a jumbled bag of pharmaceutical allsorts?

The reality is, feelings are often far from wonderful and seldom should be followed. But we should accept that if we ignore, deny or overlook feelings entirely, the price will ALWAYS be higher and worse. They will exercise a powerful allying subterranean influence across the whole of our lives, buckling and straining our very system of being.

@resolute Bandicoot: "I have seen countless people reduced to mental jelly, drink way too much, fall into chronic fatigue or suffer in other terrible ways due to the alert fatigue and ideological strait jacket imposed by this bunch of clowns." And who's more easier to control and manipulate than the weak and dependent? Interesting to ponder over.

Essentially, I don't think the shelving of "negative thoughts" is any more moral, virtuous and courageous than an axe murder whose axe is put in a hard-to-reach space. You've got issues? Face them.

32

Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

by john.prestor in

i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@john.prestor Happy to support that venture :).

You mentioned the tedious ping-ponging of reading paragraphs/asking questions, then answering from the paragraph (and lather, rinse, repeat).

Study conductors simply cannot cope when the student goes of script or asks additional questions. Usually, the conductor will instruct the student to "put that thought on hold," or "shelve that question for later...", and I think this is, in large part, to do with the utter chaos Jehovah's Witnesses are conditioned to anticipate should things go slightly out of the order predicated by the Watchtower - both studiously, and off duty in the real world.

They are under the strong impression that the Governing Body has provided them with the ONLY formula to navigate through existence. Anything that slightly deviates from the prescribed margins is a landslide to hell. And you see this in the Witnesses' absolute terror to ad lib during a Bible study.

5

If there is a god.....

by Crazyguy in

jw
friends

“if there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he would of given each of us a time machine” .

crazyguy.

.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

“If there is a god, and he is a loving god, then he wouldn't give man any reason to travel back in time."

-WHAM!

47

Why didn't I leave back then???

by silentbuddha in

sunday my old bethel roommate came up to visit me.

he left a couple years ago and he wanted to catch up and reminisce.. while we sat back remembering crazy things we saw take place at bethel he reminded me of a creepy instance with bro.

swingell.. it was a saturday morning and we decided to actually go get breakfast.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@Tallon: "It would be a best seller!"

Let's call it: Printers and Pillows and Pacemakers - Oh My!

28

But it's not about the Money

by LevelThePlayingField in

money was the motivator.. .

money.

again, money was the motivator.. .

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

Hey Tony, you bloodless, money-grabbing freak. I found a part of the Bible where the apostle Paul specifically addresses you and your billion dollar empire:

"...and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain." - 1 Timothy 6:5

15

JWTALK Bob Comes Up With A Classic

by AverageJoe1 in

the guy everyone loves to hate, bob, has come up with a classic:.

redefining the concept of "critical thinking" when it comes to jws.. he quite correctly states the need to use critical thinking when reading the bible, yet we all know that pimi jws don't have the first clue what "critical thinking" really means, especially on a thread fawning over how great the gb are and guessing who will be presenting the next jwb!.

the link to the actual comment is:.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

Critical thinking when cross-examining the sovereign of the universe: allowed.

Critical thinking when cross-examining the dudes who claim to speak for said sovereign: DENIED.

Go figure.

@jp1692: Let's review: It's a cult!

32

Jehovah's Witnesses: shame and domination

by john.prestor in

i want to suggest something that i've been ruminating on for a while now.

that involves the possibility that when jehovah's witnesses look for "sheep-like ones" what they're actually looking for is this: those who will allow themselves to be dominated (get rid of things that god "hates," accept the movement's beliefs without protest, not check into the movement's history) and those who are willing to be shamed (letting jehovah's witnesses into their homes when doing so is looked down upon in secular society, talking with them on the street when everyone else avoids them).. i say this because from what i observed at the kingdom halls i attended in the course of gathering data for my research i saw:.

-frequent shaming: jehovah's witnesses must do more to be acceptable to god, they are "good for nothing slaves," they are spared through armageddon by jehovah's "undeserved kindness," etc.

Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

@john.prestor Some seriously astute observations you've been making. I'd really like to see your finished research! Will you be posting it on this forum?

This was lifted by one of our forum contributors, @pale.emperor, from an approved JWs-only forum:

I also received these words in an email a couple of months ago by an old JW acquaintance who has cottoned on to my external research activities of the Septuagint:

"You owe Jehovah humility and honesty. He doesn't favour the intellectual ones who are proud and showy with their academic knowledge. He sees your loving heart [WHAM!] and has tried to help you on numerous occasions. Now it's time to walk the walk, no more talk. Get to work in proclaiming the kingdom blessings to the lost souls in this dying world... Ignore the occasional hypocrite and just PUT YOUR NOSE TO THE GROUND PLEASING JEHOVAH."

Earlier this year, I had a brief stint with a Jehovah's Witness who conducted a Bible study with me while I feigned interest as a worldly person. Here are some excerpts from some email exchanges we had between studies (all quotes belong to the study conductor):

"These are very complicated arguments you present me with. I remember Jesus words in Matthew 11:25 where Jesus said that Jehovah reveals things not to the wise and intellectual ones but to young children.I am of the latter. Jehovah does the revealing."

"I am prepared to just study the simple truths of the bible with you, but you need to decide what motivates you to want to talk to us. We are looking for people who are looking for the truth. We are delighted to help them find the simple truth of the bible. I hope you are one of these people."

"Jehovah does not want us to be ignorant either. But when it comes to wisdom I feel I need to be humble and recognise that human wisdom pales into insignificance when it comes to Jehovah’s wisdom. 1 Corinthians 1:19."

"I’m willing to discuss with you what I have learned is the truth, but I’m not willing to debate about words or dates. Times are urgent, we need to get on with the job Jesus gave us Matt 28:19-20. Matt 24:14 Matt 10-7. If you still want me to come on those terms I will be happy to."

"Really, the truth is very simple, paradise lost, paradise regained. Even uneducated simple people can grasp it because it is Jehovah who reveals it."

"I have decided that I will not be discussing things any more, I feel that you have formed very firm ideas about jw. Nothing I could say would change your mind."